Help on some fact checking please

[graychalk]

Hi, I'm working on a fanfic and need a bit of help on fact checking. My memory is a bit fuzzy, especially regarding all the things that were revealed during the Fourth War (on top of skipping a lot of it...), so I'd appreciate some help please. I'm putting the three questions behind the cut, because there are SPOILERS regarding Tobi's real identity, Rin, and general Madara stuff.



1. When Obito attacked Konoha (the Kyuubi and Naruto's birth incident), was Madara already dead? My understanding is that Madara was already dead, but I couldn't find the confirmation one way or another.

2. Do we know how long it was (or at least the closest estimate) between the time Obito "died" and when Rin was killed and then Obito attacked Konoha during Naruto's birth?

3. Was it said for sure one way or another, whether Obito was the only person who could revive Madara? Could Zetsu do it on his own without Obito?
 

Thanks very much in advance for any help!

Comments

[kanames_harisen]

Well, I don't think any of your questions have been dealt with directly in the manga, which is why you're having a problem fact checking them. I could be wrong, of course, so it might be good to get another opinion besides mine.

1. Yes, that was my understanding too, but I'm not sure if the manga ever explicitly confirms it.

2. Again, I don't think says in the manga. I was under the impression that it had to be at least a month or two between when Obito 'died' and when Rin was killed, but no longer than a year. I took the following facts into consideration:
(1) the flashbacks of Obito during his healing showed that it was not necessarily a short or easy process
(2) all of their physical appearances still look pretty close to the same age as when Obito 'died' (which the wiki states is 13)
(3) Madara revealed in the latest chapter that he orchestrated Rin's death to manipulate Obito was he was still very vulnerable

As for how much time passed from when Obito 'dies' to when he attacks Konoha, I think it's safe to say that it's about a year to 18 months. At the time of his 'death', I'd estimate his team to all be around 12 or 13 years old. Kakashi is 14 when Obito has the Kyuubi attack Konoha, so that narrows the timeframe quite a bit. So 18 months to heal, witness Rin be killed, train, and then attack Konoha.

3. This one I think I can actually answer, though the manga still isn't definite about it (wow, I think there's a bit of a theme going on here). When Obito comes back from the Kamui dimension without Kakashi, Madara tries to use Zetsu to force Obito to perform a jutsu. But Obito fights against Zetsu's will and changes the hand-signs, transforming himself into the Sage of Six Paths. The prevalent theory is that Madara had been trying to force Obito to revive him at that point, since Madara makes a statement (I don't remember the exact words, sorry!) that Obito has deviated from the plan and appears unhappy about it. Because of this, my opinion is that Zetsu could possibly revive Madara without Obito, if Obito was weakened to the point that he could no longer fight against Zetsu.

Okay, so I hope that helps you a little bit. I wish I had something more definite for you. Good luck!

[graychalk]

Lol, I'm wondering (and it wouldn't be the first time I'm wondering this) if Kishimoto keeps so many things vague so that he can make stuff up along the way. He's got to at least realize by now that he keeps retconning his own story. :P

Anyhow, thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions! They were very helpful, even if they weren't explicitly confirmed one way or another in the manga. At the very least, it gives me a good idea how close or far off my assumptions are, which is as good as it's going to get in some cases. :)

Kakashi's age during the Kyuubi attack is also great info; I don't recall that being mentioned at all, so this is good to know as it actually helps another aspect of my fic.

Regarding #3, I'm a bit confused on that point actually. I fully admit to skimming through half the stuff that went on with the war and Madara (mostly because I was just fed up with it), so forgive me if I end up saying something idiotic due to my lack of understanding the fine points... but I'm wondering why you came up with the conclusion that Zetsu could revive Madara without Obito? Because if Zetsu is capable of reviving Madara without Obito, can't he simply just have Zetsu do it instead of using Zetsu to force Obito?

Or did you mean Zetsu could use Obito without Obito's consent once he's weakened? If it helps to see where I'm coming from, I was thinking more along the lines of what happens if Obito were dead. Would that mean Madara had no way to be revived? It's just... Madara was banking on a lot in trusting Obito's power and his ability to stay alive long enough to be around and revive him later on. It got me thinking about whether Madara had a backup plan in the event that Obito dies, which led me to wondering if Zetsu could do it without Obito.

In any case, thank you once again! This helped more than you think!

[kanames_harisen]

Kakashi's age during the Kyuubi attack! Oh yeah, that one took a bit of thinking on my part. It doesn't state it plainly anywhere, but we know that he is 14 years older than Team 7, so he had to have been 14 when the attack happened.

And yeah, I meant that Zetsu could use Obito without Obito's consent, if he was weakened enough. As far as using Zetsu instead of Obito in the case of Obito's death... maybe. I certainly think it's plausible, though it hasn't said so in the manga.

Of course, then that brings up the issue of why Madara didn't just plan on using Zetsu in the first place. Perhaps using Zetsu has some as-of-yet unknown complications, so Madara relegated him to a back-up. I think that Madara is the not type of man to leave things to chance, so I'm sure he would have some kind of plan B in the event of Obito's death or lack of cooperation. But since we haven't seen that happen yet in the manga, this is all just speculation on my part.

[graychalk]

Ah, yes, I didn't think of deducing his age at the time of attack that way!

And thanks for explaining what you meant about Zetsu, Obito, and Madara. That was what I was thinking too, but I just wasn't sure if it was actually talked about some more in the manga (as in the exact way Obito was supposed to do it and whether Zetsu could do the same).

Thanks again! :)